v399 March 29, 2007
Posted by mebethe in Notes.1 comment so far
Notes 3/29/07
Norman – 7:30PM 4/5/07 IAVA (Invisible Art, Visible Artists) Cinematheque 108 – editors discuss their academy award winning films – and two will be live to discuss to your hearts content – or until it is time for them to go…
Great job stepping up to the editing task! Shows the way you are thinking on your own when editing.
We made decisions to remove flashbacks – what do we think? Good – consensus – did anyone miss it? Nope. (were there negative repercussions in any place?)
Gordon – still trying to make mine work – but I think it works because it strengthens it – feels it is like a book end instead.
Tim – the more I see you – seems like a lot more fun now because no more cutting back and forth.
Norman – need to work on music cut on Joy’s section.
Jon – one thing that bothers me on consider me gone – after Ted’s gotten fired – and he is front and center feeling like a million bucks – so that musical sequence kind of pulls me out of the narrative – puts the story on hold. And doesn’t start up again until after this.
Gordon – but we have this kind of rhythm of when they sing throughout – kinda of like it makes them feel better when they sing – (lost wife, lets sing)
Comments on v299 (Add your comments here) March 23, 2007
Posted by Norman in Notes.18 comments
This is where you should be adding your comments back and forth on this cut. Remember that I expect to see at least two or three comments from each one of you.
Dana and Julep do seem whinier this time. We have to be careful to choose the reactions from them, and the line readings, that don’t reinforce this. Anything where they look more sympathetic to the boys, where they’re laughing with them, should be considered.
Scene 1
I’d like to see Dana earlier than we do right now. And remember, the cut to Dana only works when it comes off of a David look to her.
Scene 3-5
The “I’m dying” line sound odd. Can you look at this.
Scene 4/9
The music start sounds very abrupt.
Spooner/Death Walk
This is very very long. Once you pass the first one, just go for the joke and get out. The walk and then the look to the other pedestrian. A single wave and the cab passes. Etc.
Scene 14-16
The cut into Ted arguing with Sloan seems rather abrupt. Can we add a beat somewhere?
Scene 26
We were going to look at taking at the voice over and the flashback. This means that the music will change in how it begins, because I can’t imagine that it will hold for the full length. Remember that once we see the boys singing, it’s all about them happily singing together. They revel in these moments.
v299 March 22, 2007
Posted by mebethe in Notes.add a comment
Notes 3/21
Sh*t happens – have backups – and check stuff out ahead of time. – flexibility and prep.
Hopefully we are all readying everyones notes
This upcoming weeks cut, v399, is the only time to try “big” things.
1) overall reactions
2) music choices
3) style and tone
addendum – please everyone blog a few times
1) overall reactions
Sarah – don’t know if spooner’s career thing is solved – astro-physicist or not? Loose end that feels weird.
Tim – mattered for me more last week – this week didn’t jump out as me as much. Don’t’ know why?
Norm – is it because we talked about it last week, and we are tired of it, or is it from the new cutting from the dinner scene?
Ryan – strange that will chimes in with his conversation – but moot that spooner is serious or not
Gordon – his weirdness is brought out more – seems to be doing much more random things.
Norm – if we wanted to definitively answer – could we and what would the answer be? What would most tell spooner’s story?
Jon – reason we may not think iabout it so much is because of Julep’s reaction to his comment.
Wendy – speaking of which – Julep comes off more as a bitch – very self righteous and very demeaning – and bad dancer J now she has more screen time more than will – and she is the date of a character we don’t even care about (will)
Sarah – two places the emotions need to be upped for suicide and wedding. Suicide maybe more close ups or something – wedding seems anti climatic – Richard gives long dialogue with no payoff – maybe more music throughout the piece would be better.
Tim – scene was much better than last time – more back and forth between them and good mood shift.
Beth – with the suicide – if we lost shot where he goes to gun cabinet – make it more of a surprise? Same with wedding – with Richard’s speech – when david comes in it’s like another ending – two endings
Norm – lets talk about the wedding in broad strokes
Ok we are here – he has paid attention to us guys and is not going to show up – oh wait he did show up – we are happy singing together – (no rocky points yet) – now we are in the toast – should wrap up underlying message of film – then we sing to toast to that.
Beth – The moment where ted gives not to trish is really strong – but then it gets weakened.
Norm – issue we need dealt with in terms of speech Richard gives – would like it always not directed to greg and kate and direct it to other people.
Gordon – no reactions from guys on speech –
Norm – then goes on really long time for him to talk – and seems longer than in previous cuts. Maybe put less of song – shorten it –
Gordon – what if song went under the beginning of toast – feels like the toast needs some musical spotting.
Norm – feeling overall whenever we dissolve certain ways – get a sense of what we are doing styalistically.
Wendy – on wedding – when they are waiting could be shorter if we played it if greg is trying to disappear or not – now the audience knows he wasn’t going to ditch the wedding – maybe if it was different it may play a little better.
Norm – slowness of wedding came from slowness before it – could we cut deeper into NYTimes scene .
1) play just bedroom no NYT 2) no interior of store 3) no NYT at all go from night into wedding.
What times of music – what about it?
Gordon – the a capella stuff they were not singing I had trouble with – made me step back from film.
Jon – joke with her listening to it was funny – but seemed to go on with death walking around. Royal tennenbaums will think of the suicide note –
Ryan – likes the a capella songs – so like why would you not use that since it’s a movie about it
Sarah – agrees with Gordon. Normal songs with lyrics felt intrusive.
Jon – don’t wanna drown out the real a capella songs.
Norm – for next cut – don’t do a capella stuff except when called for – and lets go for more traditional music score – supports emotionality of moment.
With the dream sequence it was not funny because the music took over to omuch – lets try and draw from common source – like tommy Newman. Then we may find out it may need to mix it up some – who knows – will find out if its changed and we can hear it.
Beth – the country song before wild things seemed to work though it wasn’t instrumental – seems to be needed there.
Norm – the diagetic music – interesting that it came from her earbuds – ettc.
Ryan – flashbacks – with Richards flashback was very surprised and pulled him out of the movie – if you lose richard’s though you need to lose ted’s
Gordon – point of Richard’s – everything we get from song is in voice over – seems its in the song – so why have it?
Norm – so kill the VO and flashback?
Wendy – in this cut the elsa and rich set up in there.
Tim – for me the flashback worked for me. Maybe I stand alone.
Norm – introducing valid point for conversation – do flashbacks or vo work in places other than in bookend places? Lets see! try experiment of the movie without the VO.
Topics For Discussion This week March 18, 2007
Posted by Norman in General, Notes.add a comment
Here are some of the things that we should make sure we have time to talk about this week, after the full screening of V299. If you have any comments now, don’t hesitate to add them, even if it’s before the screening.
- Music. Let’s listen to what we’ve all done and figure out a plan for next week, to bring the music more together, and to make sure that we are consistent about where we use music.
- Style. We’re still not consistent about style — picture-in-picture, dissolves, how we treat flashbacks.
Notes for v299 March 15, 2007
Posted by Norman in Notes.add a comment
Everyone, please download the PDF continuity for our next cut (v299) and check and see if it is the correct version for what you’ve cut. If not, please send me a revision by Wednesday at 12noon, so I can adjust the continuity.Also, please note that everything that comes out of the editing room should have Bars and Tone, and the Academy head and tail leaders on them. You never know where things are going to end up, so it’s better to be protected.
Section 1
A note: the entire run of bars should have tone with it.
Main Titles
Very nice work. I’ve got a few suggestions. First, it looks like some of the titles are out of title safe (I’m losing the first letter on the left) so make sure that you put your Grid on when you position the titles. Second, we should talk about whether we should bring this stylistically together with other places in the film where the “sweet memories” come through. In some cases, that has involved dissolving between shots, nice and leisurely.
Can you bring David’s lips on a bit later, so it’s not so long just sitting on his lips before they do anything? Fading them up slower would also help.
I think you could stand to hold a little longer on the audience applauding over their shoulders. You could swap it out for some of the head of the next wide shot.
Scene 3-5
Can we see DAvid’s reaction to “kids” or “house”?
Didn’t you used to have a shot of Dana after his “Yes.” It should be funnier that way.
Get the music in there a bit more subtlely. Also, you’re sitting on the empty frame after DAna exits too long.
After David says goodbye to Dana, you don’t need to actually walk him out from that position. You can cut from him thinking right to the mirror.
Scene 9
I wasn’t clear on my earlier notes about this scene. I didn’t mean to suggest that you begin the scene with Richard’s line. I liked the opening with the wide shot. I just wanted to see if you could lose the Larry, Curly joke.
The music isn’t really working in this scene. Something more instrumental wouldn’t distract so much.
Likewise, the end of the scene is too abrupt. The music begins before the Old Guys joke has a chance to settle and I do miss the final shot of Richard. Can you cut back to him and not play a line? And begin the music over Richard’s shot?
Scene 11
Can you cut to the Producer turning to Will a bit earlier in Will’s rap? You probably don’t want to be on the producer any longer though, so beat it out the best way you feel.
Is there any head on the shot where the producer turns back to the control board, where he might sneer a bit?
What is Will doing with his head as he watches the Producer dismiss the singers? There’s a funny look-up near the end of the cut.
Scene 14-15
Note that parts of this duplicate what is in section 2.
Section 2
Don’t forget to put Bars and tone and an Academy Countdown leading into your cut.
Scene 14-15
Work out with Sabi where the music is ending and split your sequences after his music ends. Right now, I think you may have started while we’re still in music.
Note that there’s some duplication of Sabi’s sequence. You should begin on the last shot of Spooner in the office, as he looks up at Ted in the doorway.
Give the audience a chance to react to Spooner’s look before beginning the prelap of the audio from the next scene.
Scene 26 Montage area
Try and dissolve between the individual scenes.
When Richard tries to give the money to the Homeless Guy, you cut out so fast that I don’t really notice who it is. Can you add a bit more?
The flashback area is working much better. Do you have anything else of the other guys singing? It seems way too Ted-centric.
“Shut up and stop singing.” The first part of his line looks out of sync.
Can you smooth out the sound as Spooner yells at the guy.
Scene 27
I like most of the cuts, but I’m not sure that “He’s packin’ 8-1/2” works without the set-up line. Either look for deeper cuts or put back the minimum needed to make the joke work.
There’s something odd about where you’re cutting around as Greg sits down and asks them to sing at his wedding. It would be better, I think, to show him asking them to sing. Can you sit him down on the wide shot to David and the boys? This area can be smoother.
Take a tiny trim around “You’re family has a lodge?”
Can you have David and the group think a bit before he asks Ted “Are you?” Right now it’s a bit too fast. Nice, but a bit too fast.
Take a bit of a trim before “Here’s an important question.”
Scene 29-30
You’re still sitting on the wide shot of the car by way too long before anything happens on it. I don’t think you need both of his lines to the tape on camera.
Try and filter/phone futz gently, some of the lines that are over the phone line. From either character.
Once again. In order to get around that freeze frame at the end, either put on tail leader, or add some sound at the end and pot the volume down to silent.
Section 4
Scene 51
The new stuff with Trish and Dana reacting to Michelle is going in the right direction but I wonder two things. First — the new shot of them staring at her as she walks over is a bit indeterminate. What are they thinking? Second — their bit seem to go on too long. Do you really need Michelle reacting to “how daring” (I’m not sure what she’s feeling there anyway) and Dana talking about opening up the wine.
What do you like about the Steven/Spooner drink offer? Why not go from “How daring!” right to the monkeys on tv.
Scene 52
Can I hear the opening vo stronger?
It plays much smoother now as Steven and Spooner enter, but can you give a tiny pause before he turns to them? That way we’ll see that Richard is watching it.
Scene A52
Can we hear Ted blow on the pitch pipe?
Lose David’s “Schong” line.
Much better start to the singing.
I can’t hear Richard’s voice over.
Is there anything more on the other guys as the song is winding up. It’s too Richard centric now. I’m also missing David throughout most of the singing.
I’m missing scene 53. Make sure that it’s in shape for Wednesday too.
Section 5
Scene 54
Remember, you must put bars and tone and a countdown leader on the head of everything that comes out of the editing room.
The area where you removed some of the dialogue has the group’s laughter so loud that I can’t tell anything about the editing there. Smooth out the sound.
The “descent of man” joke isn’t funny yet. Why don’t you stay on Dana for the entire line?
Scene 56-58
David’s fantasy seems a bit slow in the back and forth with Dana.
The way the music ducks out for Richard’s dialogue is a bit inelegant.
On Spooner’s dream — is there an extra frame of some sort when you cut from the close to the wider shot.
Music — it’s time to talk about whether this is the proper music choice for this montage. Why did you choose it? Does it fit in with the rest of the film? Why don’t you look at a number of other choices, including some a capella music (but also including other choices)
Scene 72
The closeup pov of Elsa isn’t the most interesting piece, I think. Is there a more salacious piece?
Look at a tiny trim on DAvid after he says “11” so Richard jumps on the answer faster. He’s anxious, remember.
Scene 73
The first few frames of this scene look like Elsa is starting from a stop, or wobbling.
Maybe add a bit onto the head of the last shot of Richard to make the cut work better.
Scene 74
The fist wide shot set-up seems to go on for a bit long. When do they notice Greg. As soon as they do, cut to him.
The cut to Dana running is odd, since it’s from behind Greg on both sides of the cut. Can you cut around to him?
Question for the next screening — is the change I had you make repositioning the line “Do you think he’ll hit him?” funnier or not. What do you think?
“Maybe I should kick YOUR ass.” See if this is more impactful if you cut to her right before “Maybe” rather than splitting the edit.
Once again. In order to get around that freeze frame at the end, either put on tail leader, or add some sound at the end and pot the volume down to silent.
Section 6
Remember, you must put bars and tone and a countdown leader on the head of everything that comes out of the editing room.
Scene 80-82
I wonder if we should put Will’s “ganja” line back in, so that it’s clear what Spooner is smoking. Or do we think it’s clear enough. I’m looking to reinforce the drug jokes later on.
The music is rather indeterminate here.
We sit on Greg a long time before Richard’s “See that’s the problem.”
There is a better shot of Richard putting on his helmet, that isn’t so wobby and wide. I believe it’s the same down angle shot onto him from earlier in the scene.
Nice work on the montage. I miss some of the cleverness you had in before — for instance, the mutliple shots of people tossing the frisbee that ended with hitting the other golfers. I don’t mind if it’s a bit longer.
See if you can make a music cut for it doesn’t vamp so long in the intro before the lyrics enter.
Scene A83
I know you’re bringing Julep in at that point, but I think you need to show some of the timeline as he’s describing how the timeline works.
Can you put “20 quality minutes” in closeup on Richard? I’m not sure if that’s better, but it might set up Julep better.
Try and put all of David’s “No” in reaction to “work out” on camera and see if you can get his face changing as he formulates his answer. See if that’s funnier.
Cheat in Dana’s closeup audio of her first line into the wide shot.
Go back to cutting out right after their reaction to “good wood” and lose the Tower of Pisa line.
Scene 84
Is there a silent reaction you can give him for “limbs and orifii”?
Section 7
Sorry about the notes. I know I did them, they just disappeared into the ether!!
Scene 87-91
Do we need David’s “Of course they have hookers, everyplace…” lines?
Can you add a bit more head back onto the shot of the women getting the drinks from the bartender? Right now we don’t even know what’s going on.
I miss a shot of David or someone else during the TEd/Trish buildup.
I can’t hear Ted’s line about “humiliate me?” Music too loud.
There seems to be an extra movement from Ted on the o/s to Trish right before he runs off. There’s something about that cut that’s odd.
When the boys come running out the music rise is a too big and too fast. I was talking about having more bass in there.
Scene 95
What causes David to turn around to the police car? The siren whoop comes after his turn.
Scene 96
As the police watches the monitor, can you look at starting it off with regular jail footage and then cut to them singing. Maybe that can happen after he walks away?
The cut out at the end of the scene might be a tad fast. Hard to tell without the next scene.
Section 8
Scene 99
Add a beat before David’s “Oh, what’s that sound?” so we hear the silence and let David react to that.
Let’s try a tiny rearrangement of lines and see if it’s funnier. After Elsa says that she’ll do it, see if you can go to Steven’s “Let’s do it” first, before Spooner. This may not work because of image size, but see if you can do that and then end with Spooner’s “awesome.”
Sc 100-102
the music here doesn’t do anything for me. Let’s talk about it in class. It’s also mixed very low.
Make a stronger sound cut between the moon and the walk and talk.
Scene 107-112
What happens if you lose David saying “Call 911” to Dana and just cut out on their stunned look. We’re looking to beef up the danger and energy.
Section 10
Scene 126
Any reason why you hold on so long after the three boys have left the shot?
Scene 127
A similar thing for this scene. Does he really need to exit? Can the door close be the cut? Can you cheat the sound of the door close, so it appears to close even earlier and then use that earlier point as a cut?
Scene 128
The first pan (with David) looks out of sync.
Instead of ending on Kate’s wave, what would happen if you went to the boys winding up their singing and finishing. then overlapping the clinking glass sound.
Scene 129
The shot of the two kids has this awkward tilt down at the top of it. Can you get rid of that?
Try and find someplace to cut to David and/or the boys during Richard’s toast. One place that occurs to me is cutting to David as Richard says “childless” for a reaction. Another place is when he looks over to the boys at “marriage takes work” (maybe go to Ted??)
As much as I enjoy the repeat of “Don’t let this happen to you” it feels odd to come around to that side angle at that point. If you played the first one on someone else other than Richard maybe it wouldn’t feel weird.
There should be a pause before “But if you water it every day…” Slow it down at that point, as he gets to the point.
There’s still that stumble on “mulch”.
As he does the actual toast, and as he gets soppy, it might be nice to see some more of the other guys.
On their final song — the side angle shot of all the boys for “I’ll tell you no lies” looks out of sync. There is also a shot of David later in the song, near the end, that is badly out of sync — David isn’t moving his mouth with the lyrics at all. So it the wedding one for “if I ever lost you.”
Much of this area needs a little something — I don’t know what. Maybe it’s something as simple as dissolves between all of the shots. The various hand helds are jerky, cut together, and not as elegant as the ending of the movie would desire.
Scene 130
Steven/Greg goodbye — before they hug, Steven has an awful lot of head shaking. I like the pacing, but I’m wondering if you could add or take away some head trim on the shots so it doesn’t seem like his head is bobbing around so much.
On the puke shot — why don’t you try cutting into that low angle on the frame or two before the puke enters. right now you’re telegraphing the joke.
Sheila still has a lot of hesitation taking the baby. Can you lose the “hand him over” line? It might make the cut to her way too fast, though. But give it a look-see.
Scene 132
There seems to be one cut too many to Dana as DAvid is talking about “making room for three… batters box… puked on” We can see her transition, but much less of his.
I get the dissolves except the last one — Empire State Building to empire State building.
More v199 discussion in class March 8, 2007
Posted by mebethe in Notes.1 comment so far
More discussion from last week
What are the holes? Differences?
Overall what are the biggest problems you can see?
Sarah – pacing…
N: Was it too fast all the way for you? Too slow? Erractic? What do you mean?
Sarah – mostly mean too slow – esp the beginning sections
Tim – spooner’s death joke – slow mo Gregorian chant slows things down.
N: anyone disagree?
Class – no
N: lets break this down
1)humor – lack there of
John – what if we cut death all out until he comes into office?
Gordon – I have thought about that – but gag of office doesn’t work so well for me – so we have to have at least one gag – so can’t just do death scene.
Beth – point of what he is wearing is answered in group scene – when it is explained.
N: feel like it is set up in apartment
Gordon – Gregorian feels like monk rather than death – maybe try other music?
N: visual jokes that rely on lyrics to make joke work are problematic – becaue not everyone listens to lyrics the same way.
John – the scene where ted sings consider me gone – voice over is an issue for me. Its very “montagy” – can we cut song in half so it doesn’t dominate sequence so much.
Tim – maybe after we meet them we put the song after the apartment see them – maybe we can try to put it after practice after they say they suck and then practice in street then then they go to Hamptons.
N: proposed way So we would go 17->27->montage->phone call David to stephen->
Gordon – what do we get from this song? What is it’s purpose?
N: question we often ask.
Jing – doesn’t buy the montage.
Beth – best part of montage is when guy says shut up at end and they all leave. Maybe we can make it quicker.
John – joke may be lost because title is no longer SUAS – ted seems healthy and happy in singing – so doesn’t fit his arc.
Jing – we know they were happy form the beginning and we don’t need to re-iterate that.
Wendy – kinda establishes that they are only happy when they sing – sets up the importance of htem being all together. I think the joke will play – the shut up – most people don’t get it, regardless of title. Nice escape that they have and is what saves them in the end and is what brings the realization that this is what makes them come together and be happy.
Sarah – don’t find the singing itself of any interest. No enjoyment of listening to them sing.
Beth – maybe guy saying shut up can be used to bring him from flashback more harsher. Maybe less we see him singing on street and more in flashback ….
N: conversation that has been going on here is very much like him with a director. One of the jobs is the back and forth. Sometimes I will bring in the assistant for another voice and variety of opinions.
My notes for the other pieces –
Lets see if we can make the death work before throwing it away.(this is what a dir will do) how can we mime any humor from this?
Sabi – did try to blend in some other music (experiment, like
Norman said)
N: if have gut instance something can work but can’t get it to work in present situation – maybe we can try to see what we can get out of it. If the humor and the spooner situation all happens in office, maybe we don’t need it at all.
Tone and style of this movie is set by music – so in this pass I want to resist taking ted’s song as well because it’s a really long time before we see them singing – and to address wendy’s comment – the first song is in the title sequence, so….
Gordon – maybe what is slowing this down is the joke at the end. Maybe we have more of a
high point moving to konitichwa directly.
N: but we do want to remind you this is a comedy – and everyone laughs at that point. However what I am picking up on is that we are doing too much in the montage so it is not grabbing everyone. What happens if we treated that area if it was we are happy singing together because we are singing together – and we cut out the people at their jobs – so with that approach – that we would go from 17-> 26 in continuity and all the rest would go away. Dealt with this as what does this part of the movie need to do? Tell some story, reveal some characters, tell some comedy, and keep musical tone.
At this point want to be most critical of your work. What does it do, what is it’s value?
Shut up and stop singing area – maybe one of the things to do there is to get to spooners reaction as quickly as possible.
Tim: also kind of makes them look pathetic – there are five of them that tower over curly hippy…
N: we just spent a lot of time talking about one note – that is why it takes weeks to do – to make a first cut.
Any other places feel slow?
Gordon – suicide and after math.
N: first may we talk about some other areas first….
Wendy – dinner scene.
N: sections five and six feel slow.
John – time line scene.
Wendy – anytime they are at a table its death.
N: where the comedy is not working – not cut or delivered correctly – no hope. Will generally blame self if it doesn’t work and will just then say its not having hope.
What areas are not working?
Tim: poop.
Class laughs
N: case in point – always gets a laugh.
T: potty humor – damn.
Ryan – occupation part.
N: the whole vanna white thing?
Class: Could be funny
Sarah – is he really an astro physicist or joke?
N; so what would we lose if we lose his sentence
Wendy – discussion of what matters later on.
N: its tentacles are later on in the table scene. At least instinct is we need spooner what he does. We need to believe he really does that to believe the other stuff to matter.
John – believes he doesn’t need to be really an astro physicist and we can still cut the line and believe the stuff later. Could start with elsa. An lose the whole interactions
Tim: spooner and trish flex of dust is later on in the scene and won’t make sense.
John – don’t really to know that it is above laymen terminology.
Beth – do feel that there has to be some other people other than ted’s job – because by the time we get to ATM with legs because other people are doing other stuff. Need other jobs.
Sarah – or can just lose julep’s reaction.
Jing – believed when reading script
Gordon – idle rich – whatever floats my boat.
Wendy – can make it a joke – leave a space between – where people are like huh.
N: in discussioini I would have with director could go one of two ways – dir. What happens if we take off top of scene n: then we lose….
Dir) oh you are right, lets try to make a version where he is/isn’t lying and see if it works.
Or lets take it out and see what breaks.
N: lets cut it out and see what breaks – the more drastic of it – there are at least two things that will break
1) discussion about ted’s job will be really undercut
2) we will lose something in spooner in believing one thing and acting differently
however could be wrong and will be instructive for class to see this change.
N: other area marked as slow – girl in the Minnie/golf scene and go into time line
Felt esp deadly at time line scne, but esp cause of the slowness that led up to it.
Julep is beginning to work – though still shots of her where she looks strange.
My notes in that area work around two major things
Remove kate on porch. Something so stagey about them singing to a photograph that it makes me cringe.
Class- clearly a headshot.
Tim – why not have girl sit in???
Jing – what triggers timeline scene?
N: get in late, leave early. We usually tell u to shoot them and then cut them in editing room.
Unlike doc cake scene – need the hey – come in and sit down.
Golf game issue – structure here that I am missing. Something not pulling us through montage. There is a story line in it – that you can tell – that right now is all over the place. “it’s about having fun” and what else…?
If we shape that will get better shape of things.
Also want to talk about editorial style of film.
Different way of presenting material –
1) lets start voice over on present day person who is doing voice over – thus we can visually motivate it.
2) Is there something we can visually do to help us throughout the film?
a. In title sequence have PIP.
b. Other thematic/places ways we can do that?
i. In golf game can we do this to show they are all together?
Suicide slow – start from skinny dipping to sex in hallway etc. does anyone feel that this area has the intensity it needs?
Sarah: no music there – would like to see it with music.
N: agrees. What would we lose if we right from 97->sex sounds
What would we lose?
Sarah: ted’s scene with bottle.
Wendy – cut quicker to them skinny dipping.
Tim – what about skinny dipping scene – instead of david’s joke – whatif it cups from anally raped to lets go sninny dipping – spooner’s going skinny dipping.
John – if ted reminds us he is not there when he comes with the bottle.
N: lets do it.
Some of the walk and talk from the skinny dip is – something is klunky there – what can be cut or moved along faster?
How much of trish and spooner do we need?
When Richard comes back in again there is that line that only a few people will know about publicist…etc.
Gordon – need to sell better notion that trish wants to have sex with spooner – what would we lose if lost sex scenes in house.
Wendy – can we movie it?
N: where would move it to?
Wendy – only two nights in movie – not sure – seems to break mood. Would be nice transition from walk to suicide.
N: what do we do in terms of removing line – he won’t violate his friendship.
Beth – the ending does it – he gives the house to ted and trish to repair their marriage.
N: suggesting that we remove that line and go to suicide attempt or sex sounds?
Class – sex sounds.
N: then we have to make sure that scene is funny – falling flat now. So what is the point of this scene?
Well actually no one is having sex….
Take a look at where last joke is and where next one is.
Tim: glad I could be of help – if she calls out spooner’s name right away.
Class: lets try that
N: but lets try that in the pacing we are talking about – don’t need to wait for every movement to happen…
N: need to make sure we understand camp Jun.
Tim: there is all frat boy humor and then this more obscure intellectual reference.
N: point made in good bye sequence where it comes back and we see ted relax finally – but only works if set up properly.
N: wanna reinforce – need to think over a large cut – the whole movie – repercussions for later in film!
Comments on Editors Cut (v199) March 4, 2007
Posted by Norman in Notes.add a comment
I echo Sabi’s comment — this is really good work. You’re beginning to get involved with some of the characters. You’ve also successfully avoided some of the pitfalls of student work — off camera lines, director cues, etc.
Our work in the upcoming weeks will now be to find the core of the film, smooth out the rough edges of this cut, and bring out the best movie, based on the Logline we originally thought of back in Week 2 of the class. That will require a lot of fine cutting, as well as some broad strokes. As I mentioned in class, I want you to start recutting based on your own brutal analysis of your own work, as well as the notes that I’ll be giving you.
Bethe has posted the notes that she took during this past Thursday’s class on this blog. Look under the posting Initial Feelings From v199.
Now, as the studio execs always say, comes the hard work.
[NOTE: You can find a link to the new continuity (v299) on this page. It contains all of the rearrangments of scenes and the omissions (in italics) that I mentioned in these notes. Download it so you can use it in your re-editing. However, if you find that you’re editing with a different order/continuity, please let me know so I can correct the v299 continuity.]
Since there are alot of notes, I am going to link here to a PDF of the entire set of notes, which might make it easier to follow them.
SECTION ONE
Main Titles
First, I’ve now uploaded the correct version of the Main Titles. I’ve deliberated held off on these, because it’s often not until very late in the editing process that I get them. You can get to them by clicking on the Main Title tab at the top of this comment. That will take you the Main Title page, which lists some instructions. You can get directly to the PDF of the Main Titles by clicking here.
I have a problem with how you use David’s lips. If the point of the film is about how these boys had fun (back in the old days) when they were together, then we need to put David on the screen with all of them. We can’t fade them out for the film’s title. What you can do (and it’s more horrendous rendering) is to gradually make the shot with his lips grow to fill the screen as the camera pulls back to reveal him. Don’t dissolve to it, but use the resize tool and position with key frames (ask Reine-Claire or myself if you’ve got any questions). You’ll have to experiment with pacing, of course, and that’s not easy on these 10.6 machines. My advice? Make it happen slower, rather than faster.
Can you be on David for the beginning of the voice over? I think that would nail the fact that he’s talking. Right now you’re on the audience. (I think that that audience shot is well placed — I wouldn’t make it much later).
Nice use of the dollies.
At the end of the voice over dolly, can you get off of Will quicker.
The shot where David breaks into “So take … take me home” can pop a little bit more. Can you cut to it on the downbeat for his “So take”? Something like you do when you drop back to the high angle wide shot later.
When the audience starts clapping, can you get to David’s or the boys’ happiness, reveling in the applause.
Scene 3-5
Dana’s entrance is a bit weird. I know I wanted you to speed it up, but she pops over to the mirror, rather than enters. Can you trim out some stuff any other way?
The cut to Dana after “coffin” pops a bit. Does she start to move her head? Is there a tiny bit of David movement?
Can we David’s entire “Uh yeah.” maybe even with a tiny bit before he says it. Let’s watch him answer the question directly, and then backpedal.
Then, try and add as much as possible on him before “Would you tell me the truth?’ The idea, comedy wise, is show his twists and turns.
We’re now going to go directly to Richard on the steps of the courhouse scene.
Question for everyone. Do you think we need the bit where David tells Dana that he has rehearsal after work and Greg has good news? Let’s put it back in for now (at the end of the mirror scene) and see if it does anything for us.
Death Walks Through Manhattan
Let’s move this down later. It also will need to speed up appreciably.
Scene 9
Can you get rid of the Larry, Curly, Moe and “one head of hair lines” action and lines. Get him to his line “What are you supposed to say…divorce?” line directly. (that is, eliminate the “good luck” stuff as well). See if the guys disappear too quickly.
Eliminate her first “What?” before “What do you have to say?”
The cut to the Homeless Dude at first, seems weird. It looks like you cut to him way too quickly in the “change” line. Can you hold a bit more on Richard to show a tiny reaction from here before cutting around?
Now that you’ve got the other reactions from him in there, the one where he looks up for the divorce court line doesn’t work and may not be necessary. It certainly doesn’t work for matching. You might look at losing it altogether. If not, try and make the edits work better.
Go right from here to Will in the studio. This will allow you, by the way, to find underscore that can play alot through the sequence without having to duck out for the chanting.
Scene 11
You use the Ad Exec differently in this cut, don’t you? the closeup of him for “I think we’ve got it” sort of tips the joke that Will isn’t in charge. Can you play that line off camera while we look at Will being troubled.
See what happens if you lose the last set of double cuts between Will and the Exec before he says “Okay folks that it”. In other go from Will pitching his idea directly to the look and turn on the Ad Exec. He’s very dismissive.
Then we’ll go from here to Scene 13 with David.
Scene 13
We’re going to have to speed this scene up a bit. First, can you beging the caller’s lines immediately after David asks “Can I help you?” Then can you eliminate the last line from the caller?
When David looks up at his co-worker, add back the shot of the co-worker but don’t have him laughing. Try and have him listening. Then when you cut back to him later, show him go into laughter. Also, since he’s not a very good actor, trawl around and look for the least offensive shots of him reacting.
After he hangs up on the caller, hold on that shot of David and use it to end the scene. Don’t do the business with his boss.
Then go to the Spooner/Death montage.
Spooner/Death Montage
What is the point of this montage? What can we get out of it? For one, I’d think that we might get a little sense of how odd Spooner is when he pulls the cowl down and reveals his face. Maybe we could get some humore too. To that end, you’re going to want to cull the funniest bits from the Death footage — the reaction of the guy at the intersection (after you’ve set up him walking next to him???), the cab wave, and anything more you have. I might also look at rearranging them, now that you’ll have them in a chunk, so he walks down the busy street, goes past the hansom cab, stands next to the curious guy on the corner, hails the cab, and whatever other bits you can find. Depending on how fast you cut this, the chanting might not work, you might want to use whatever style of music you’ve been using in the previous areas.
I would like you to end the walking montage on the shot of him entering the office building and then cut to the elevator door opening. In fact, because this will be heavy with music, I want you to take the first scene in Jing’s section (Scene 14-15, where he meets Tammy) and add it to the end of your section.
Scene 14-15
Whatever music you’re using, see if it makes sense coming from Tammy’s iPod — that is, filter it on the cut so it appears to be coming from her ear buds.
See about cutting to Spooner cut as he’s pulling back the cowl.
Then cut back to him for a tiny reaction at the top of his “Hi Ted’s Tammy” in order to nail the fact that he knows he has an effect on her.
In order to make the overlap in scene 16 work, leave the shot that ends the scene — Spooner’s reaction in the office to Tammy — at the head of Jing’s sequence. Your last shot should be Tammy at the door.
SECTION TWO
Scene 14-15
Sabi will add this to the end of his section. You should begin with the last shot of Scene 15 (Spooner looking back at Tammy in the office with the prelapped dialogue from Scene 16).
Scene 17
There’s something that’s not quite working about how the music begins, and the cut out from Ted discovering Tammy and Spooner together. I keep on thinking you need to begin the music on Ted’s reaction. Though the dead silence is interesting as they walk to the elevator, it’s not funny, and that’s what we’re looking for here.
Montage
Nice work here, however let’s try a few things. First, the two shots of Will seem a bit redundant. I’d lose the one where he’s singing and just use the one where he looks longingly at the mic — I think we understand what he wants to do, without showing it directly.
Even more so, I wonder if it might be better to go from them singing to Richard’s vignette, saving Will for a bit later in the song. Check the new continuity (which I’ll post when I’m done with the notes) for a suggestion. Try this order: Ted and Spooner at elevator ==> Richard ==> Will ==> David.
Then, see if it would be more poignant, if you went to the singing in between each of the vignettes.
I really like it when you start dissolving from present to past. What happens if you dissolve between all of the vignettes and the singing.
See if you can start the voice over when we’re looking at Ted in the present day in front of Lincoln Center, rather than in the flashback singing.
Also, watch out for the sync of the singing in the present (it looks off by a few frames). Also in the flashback, use as little of the obviously out of sync stuff as possible (this is largely around Ted).
Can you come out of the voice over and go right to “Gone, gone, gone.”
Zach’s first line looks out of sync as he enters. I know it’s cheated, but his lips aren’t moving when we hear him talking.
Look at cutting right from “mental patient” to the next scene. I don’t think you need to have them walk out of the frame.
Scene A27
Wow, this is looking a lot better with the cuts in it, so we’re going to do more of them. Keep looking for ways to pick up the pace on this scene yourself.
Let’s lose Will’s “Tammy, you slept with my Tammy” and Richard’s “Is there anyone you won’t sleep with?” and go right to Will’s “How long has it been?’
Take a head trim on Richard’s line “Can I visit you tomorrow?” line, so it goes right to the line. We don’t need to see him reachig for the glass.
Maybe you should put back in Will’s “I hope that’s metric” line. The Fellini stuff is really unfunny, so whatever we can use. An alternative would be to cut it out altogether and hope no one notices when Will calls him Fellini later on in the film.
The long pause after Ted’s “neither” line is good. Can you hold longer on the wide shot, and just go to the closer shot as he’s sitting down for “When she sees you naked” or somether around there.
The joke about “Six, but we don’t…” doesn’t really work because we don’t see Greg’s reaction to “five times.” So try and put that back in.
I also think we should be on Greg for “It’s really important to me.”
I know we got a laugh from it, but what would happen if we went right from Spooner’s “lodge” line to Richard’s “park rangers” and lost the wide shot of all of the boys shouting “THE LODGE?” Since we do that three times in this scene, it gets old for the last one — the Japanese translation at the end of the scene.
Lose all of the “good witch/bad witch” stuff. Maybe you can keep the “Nonny” stuff if you can make it funny.
Look at overlapping Greg’s “What’s your DOC?” with the boys’ reactions. But make sure that we hear the term DOC, since it’s important that we know that DOC means “Days of Celibacy.”
Pause out the “unhappily married” and “are you” stuff a little more. It might be good to play all of Ted’s line on camera too.
Scene 29
Start the first line of the Spanish tape over the end of the wide shot of the car (including Steven’s response). Then cut into the car just for the “more water” bit.
Try playing all of Steven’s “Shut up!” on camera.
After David says “bush” cut to the car for the rest of his line so we can see Steven’s reaction.
We can lose the “Man!” before “Well, look on the bright side” in order to speed up this section.
Play more of “moral fiber on camera”
I’m bothered by the starting and stopping of the car. Can you keep it moving the whole time?
Actually, something that might help that, but I’m suggesting it for a different reason… The stuff about Billy Crystal, and fantasies and realities… I’m not sure what it gives us, except a bit of another subplot about envy, that we never deal with in the film at all. What if you lost all of that stuff and went right to “Steven, come for us.”
I know this bridges the two sequences, but we need to start the music earlier than we do. Why don’t you lose the last shot of Steven from your sequence and have Beth pick it up for the top of her sequence?
SEQUENCE THREE
Note my comment above that you should begin your sequence with the last shot of scene 29/30 so you can begin the music early in that shot. Right now it begins way too late, and we’re sitting watching Steven for a long time for no good reason.
Scene 34
I still feel the music cut — it drops out completely around there. I know why you did it, and it makes sense, but let’s see if we can get the music to feel smoother.
In an attempt to fix the time jump from the intersection to Spooner greeting the rest of them, I think we should try splitting the montage into two pieces, with the second one coming between the intersection and scene scene 37. So, you’ll probably have to extend this first part of the montage, and save the shots of scene Hamptons for the second part.
Scene 35-36
The shot of the other driver waving them on seems to go on too long.
Dropping back to the WS around Richard’s rant is a good idea, but the wide shot goes on for too long. You don’t have to bring the other car to a complete stop — the sound will help to sell it.
When Richard stops the first time, there seems to be a few frames too many on the head of his shot.
It would be good to see “No stop signs…” on camera.
The hit is getting better, but it’s odd not to be inside the car for so long. The shot of the truck approaching through the back window was a good one. Can you get that back in there?
Do we need the shot of the other driver at the end. It’s not funny. What happens if you waited until Richard said “rules” and then cut to him (if there was a better reaction shot).
Try cutting out before Richard’s “sue them” rant. It didn’t get a laugh and goes on for a very very long time.
Driving Montage
This is where you can put in the second half of the driving montage, showing them getting closer to the Hampton’s This might lead in better to the lighthouse shot.
I’m still bothered by the time jump. Is there stuff on the head of the Spooner shot of him working in the garden that you can use to nail the fact that he’s now there.
Scene 37
Lose Richard’s “without all the snakes I hope”. We can’t hear the Eden line and so it makes no sense. It also stops the movement cold.
Scene 38-41
I feel the need for music much earlier than you have it. I think that it should begin after Ted says his last line in Scene 37, so it covers the beginning of this scene.
Odd question — did you blow up the shot of the guys walking into the house. The reason I ask is that the sharp pom pom that Richard looks at is out of frame. There is another take where he pokes the pom pom and gets hurt by it. Try that one instead.
The fade in and out is odd, since we never do that in the film. Try another transition device.
Scene 42-43
Since we might lose the Fellini line back in the apartment, see if you take that phrase out of Will’s greeting line.
The cut to the group on the porch doesn’t make any sense with dialogue, since she hasn’t been introduced as Julep yet. I was trying to get something to speed up the cutting at that point — a silent shot of them on the porch or a very wide shot of the house (not that we have one of those, but you can always try).
Since you’re cutting up the Julep arrival shot, see if you can get her “shut up” line to Spooner out. It duplicates the same joke she does with the group on the porch.
Take a head trim on the wide shot so you get to “shrew like Michelle” faster.
Look at taking a bunch of head trims on Julep so she doesn’t keep bopping her head around on practically every cut to her.
Can you cut to Julep as she shakes hands with Dana and Trish. We’re hanging on that porch shot a long time and it would be nice to break it up.
Scene 44-49
The music is rather indeterminate both in volume and in attitude.
Can you speed up the Trish/Dana section a little bit as they watch Spooner in the water?
That area also feels a little too much Trish and not enough Dana.
Let’s lose the entire scene with Will and Julep and see if we miss anything.
I wish I saw “Dana… have sex with her” on camera because I miss the import of it, and Dana’s reaction seems flatter as a result.
I don’t see why you overlap Trish’s last line “What?” over the boys walking on the beach.
Where does the “lucky guy” line come from? I’m not sure I undersand why David would say that.
I like where you cut into David for his “you’ll find someone” but the cut pops because the arm energy is lower on the closeup side than in the outgoing wide shot.
If there is a joke around the masturbation line it’s not on the word, so look at holding onto the wide shot for “greatest invention of all time”
Notice how they are walking in the closeups, and still on the final wide shot. In order to disguise that, try cutting to the wide shot right as Richard screams “Ow” and slaps himself.
Once again, the fade out/fade in doesn’t really work in the context of the film. Try cutting directly to the next sequence.
SEQUENCE 4
Take a look at the notes from my last set. I’m duplicating them below as well.
Scene 51
Part of the humor of David’s Jaz stuff has to be that he is entranced with Elsa. So, before he says “Short for Jasmine” can you get a shot of Elsa in there (without lengthening the action)?
Try the “How adventuresome” reading.
Lose the bit where Spooner gives Steven the drink.
Scene 52
Have some voice over during the first shot of the television.
Get to Spooner and Steven entering and Richard turning to them much faster.
When Steven is looking at the tv, let’s see what he’s seeing. You can overlap some of Richard’s next line over the television.
I can’t tell that Richard is humping Steven in the close-ups. Drop back to the wide, or the joke with Elsa isn’t going to work.
What’s that sound as Richard is staring at Elsa. Remove it. Also, you need to get to Steven’s apology to Elsa quicker.
Lose Richard’s “That’s your nanny” and begin with “Michelle lets…”
The final joke of Spooner staring at the television doesn’t work right now. Put some of the television show sound in there to help remind us of that. Maybe there’s some cheesy Discovery Channel music that goes over the scene that you can raise or lower to make your point.
Scene A52-C52
I don’t think the prelap of the Steven dialogue helps you here.
Try and create a tiny bit more overlap around the “You’re telling me this now…” area.
Cutting to David right on his first note is odd.
Having Elsa in there is helpful, though I’d look at where you cut it in a bit more. The first shot seems a bit early, and then you seem to do it a bit too much. See if you can get Richard to notice her.
When you first go the flashback, I wonder if holding on the trees area a bit more, to get him doing the trombone might help the cut.
Lose the “Let’s have lunch” line.
Scene 53
After Michelle announces the food, can we get a reaction from Trish? You might need to be in tighter on Michelle to make that joke work.
We’re on Spooner a long time for his wormhole line. Can you get to a reaction shot (or two??) and then back to him for “And what do you do?”
The joke about what Ted does isn’t quite working yet. When Richard starts to fall asleep a second time, can’t you cut around to him? Also, Elsa’s reaction feels in isolation. It would be good to play some of the Richard/Ted lines over here.
The “ATM/weiner” joke isn’t working yet either. It might work better cut a little straighter, so you’re on her for “ATM” and then back to her for “weiner”. You also seem to hold a long time after “weiner”. Doesn’t anyone else at the table have reactions to the joke.
Getting to Will’s description is rough. Maybe if you prelapped his lines over someone else and then cut to him.
Titer on “nah, it’s cool.”
You’re also holding too long on the Dana/Steven shot to make the jokes work. Do you have anybody’s reaction to “documentary stuff” that you could cut to. Then cut away again for “Vanna White’s life” and let that drop like a lead balloon among the group. Then he identifies the title and Dana and others can’t believe it. Then I think you need to open up some time (with some reactions) to the Sisyphus story and, after the beats, drop the “Plus she’s hot” line in there. Also, try and leave some time before Will’s reaction to that line. Make this fairly awkward and Will is trying to help Steven out here.
Sound wise – keep some of the laughter and ambience going around “Martha Stewart on steroids” line. Also, try losing the “Queer” part of that line and get out just for the punch line.
Head trim on “Just PR”
Head trim before “actually it’s liberating.”
Nice laughing in reaction to “tar”. Is there a wide shot that might act as punctuation here. It’s been a while. Make sure you keep Will trying to save Michelle.
The toasts and after that can be picked up in pace.
I don’t think you need to see everyone’s reaction to the orgasm. Once again, is there a wide shot that you can use here?
Prelap, “no it’s okay” from Elsa.
Once again, I don’t think you need everyone’s reactions to Elsa’s line. Just choose the funniest ones and leave the rest on the cutting room floor. I’d look at having David (and maybe Richard) react, then get out of the scene. Question: do we need Michelle getting Elsa out of there? I’d say only if we can make Michelle’s line funny.
SEQUENCE FIVE
Scene 54
Some of the way you cut off of Richard undercuts the jokes. Look at his “remarkable restraint” area, for instance.
Can you lose all of the “nebula” and “supernova” stuff. Maybe go from “bonobos monkeys” line to the table and then Dana’s line.
Another alternative would be to lose Dana’s entire “descent of man” line and go right from “bonobos monkeys” to “wasker”.
Scene 56-68
Take a look at very short trims at the ends of some of the shots with David and Dana. I also think that we move too far past the joke. See if you can structure it so he looks up and there’s Dana. He acts guilty, then she gives him the okay. He dives in and we get out quickly.
Shouldn’t you dissolve from Ted in bed, to Ted squatting down at the door?
Add some sound of Trish’s door opening and her kicking him. The idea is to keep the reality alive in the dream.
Do you need Trish’s exit from the scene?
What about dissolving to Will’s dream?
Is Will’s entrance with the butterfly net funnier in the closeup or wide shot? You do it twice and I wonder if that doesn’t dilute the humor a bit?
Don’t fade in/fade out going into the next day. Is there a lighthouse shot at night? Otherwise, use the moon shot from sequence eight, after the skinny dipping. Then see if you go to the house at day, or the guys on the porch or Elsa exercising.
Lose some of the lines of them fawning over her. One or two are okay, but there are way too many, and it seems absurd after a point.
There are some tail trims you could make here, to punch up the comedy. Cut out right after “anybody up for a run?” and then right after Richard’s fall. You could tighten up after Steven’s “last time you went running”. A head trim on the shot where Richard pops up again would be good too.
Scene 73
You hold for a long time after Richard gets up and exits the frame. I know you want to have the time to get him to the next shot but it’s too long to look at an empty frame. Tail trim that shot and see what you get.
GEt out of the last shot earlier. Once the first car goes by, find a good out point.
Scene 74
Let’s lose the dialogue of Will and Greg speaking Japanese. Not sure where it’s supposed to go.
Humor wise — can you get to the “Do you think Steven will punch him”/”Not that mad” stuff in between the “assholes” and “douche bags” lines.
Get to Steven’s closeup line quicker.
Can you trim the head of “I don’t get these people.”
SEQUENCE SIX
Scene 80-82
Start on the wide shot so we know immediately where we are.
Take a tail trim off of the shot of Spooner throwing the frisbee, so it hits the pole a bit faster.
Maybe add a bit back onto the head of the walk and talk about the girl in the mini wide shot.
See about losing a bit of the deescription of the girl in mini that Greg gives so you can pick it up a little bit there.
Spooner’s smile shot is on too long.
I think you need some music during Greg’s description of the girl.
There is a better reading from Richard on “get wasted” where he puts the straw in his mouth (it’s in his closer shot). Besides, it’s odd to drop back to the wide shot that then immediate pushes in.
Some of the montage shots go on way too long.
Also, take a look at restructuring the montage even more, so more of the stoner shots are earlier, breaking up the lengthier areas. Also, look at the placement of the chase sequence stuff with the other golfers. Look at moving that series of frisbee throws and hits down near the end, so it leads into the hit of the other golfer, which leads to the golf cart chase, which leads to the final shot of them coming over the hill.
Scene 83
Lose this entire scene of them singing to the photo of Kate, and have the song end over the timeline being unravelled.
Scene A83
We got a note on Thursday that the concept of the timeline was hard to grasp. Try putting David’s line about “one day, one hour” over the wider insert of the timeline as he points to each line (more or less).
Nice beginning to get Julep around the table. See if you can simply get her to land at her final position, without making too big a deal about it. That might be as David is talking about Baby Faced Nelson, or a little before that.
David saying “June 19th…” etc. There is a change in take in the middle of that line that is odd. Can’t you use all of the on camera line, even when it’s off camera.
Julep’s smile reaction before she starts talking is odd.
I’d go right from Julep’s line directly to David’s line “get a grip” rather than the smiley reaction from her, which is also tough to figure out. Maybe you can put the last part of her line on her closeup and then go to David.
Remove some of her stuttering around “Do you do anything about it?”
Try having her overlap Will’s line so she cuts him off.
The second silent reaction from Julep to Richard’s counting of the time working out is superfluous. Can you use someone else’s reaction there instead?
Julep’s reactions tend to work better coming off of the guys’ closeups rather than the wide shot.
Lose Richard’s “horrible… truly awful” line.
Lose “clue phone” line.
Is there any more on the wide shot after “good wood” reactions that you can use before cutting out to the walk and talk?
Scene 84
Cut to David for some of his reaction to Dana talking to him. This should be about David beginning to internalize it. It will also make the cut back to her for “limbs and orifii fully functional” more powerful.
Hold on a bit longer for Dana and David to land before cutting to their pov of the old couple.
I don’t normally recommend this, but the shot of the old couple is so dark that it become distracting. Can you lighten it up at all?
SEQUENCE 7
Scene A84
The clapping goes on for a long time. Also, is there a little push in at the end of the Ted clapping and pointing shot.
Lose Elsa’s “no sex in two years” line and go right to her “Oh my God.”
Can you tighten up between “A toast” and “to richard’s lonely member.” We don’t need everyone toasting and it would be better to get to Elsa’s line quicker. Take a look at ending on the boy’s after “weird group” so we can see the weird group.
Scene 87-91
Should there be some music playing on the juke box at the beginning of the scene that ends for Julep’s song? It might fill up the scene.
Lose Will’s “God Bless America” for now. It didn’t get a laugh, as I remember, at our screening.
Pick up the pace as Richard gets back to the table.
Tone Loc’s song’s intro “Lez do it” — can you put it in over David’s shot to motivate the cut to the jukebox?
A few of the cuts go on a bit too long. Look at trimming a few of them down.
On the cut to outside, have the music louder as they come storming out. It can go out as the door closes.
As they all pile out of the bar, when the door closes, see if you can get the music to just be the bass thumping.
Scene 95
Sound effect of cop car siren. this should really be a “whoop whoop” thing, rather than a siren-by.
Scene 96
See if you can cheat “I’ll say something” up earlier, right after Steven says his line. Even if you need to get out of the wide shot quicker.
Lose the first part of Will’s line so he just says the sarong part, and see if it’s funny.
The shot of them singing on the police monitor is good. Here’s an additional joke, to see if we can make that funnier. Can you cut to the shot as it was originally shot — with just the regular picture and then have it switch to the boys. Not sure what that will do to the sound — does it come on at the same time?
Who sings “Whoa, yeah, it’s cold in jail.” and can we see him say it?
The end of the scene goes on too long. Get to the exterior pretty much as soon as we see them high five each other.
SECTION EIGHT
Scene 97
Dana should react faster to “busted headlight.”
Can we see a little bit of their reaction to Will’s “hope he’s not getting laid right now” before you cut to Dana’s reaction.
Can you blend the reactions from the boys on this side of the cut into the scene 99 entrance chatter?
Scene 99
Create a little pause after “Sadly no” so that David can comment on the silence with “What’s that sound?”
Can you get off of Spooner a hair faster after “skinny dip”?
Check and see if it’s funnier without Spooner’s “awesome” or with it moved down somewhere.
Scene 100-102
Take a tiny head trim at the top of the scene so the tilt starts a little faster.
I feel the need for some music as Ted enters and looks off screen to them. the music would show his isolation and run through all of the walk and talk until, perhaps, Richard pulls up in the car or something. Or maybe it changes character but then underlines David’s question to Elsa about whether she’d sleep with him (if it doesn’t undercut the humor between them). In that case you might want to run it through the gun shot.
MISSING — The moon shot.
Head trim on Elsa’s “So why did you guys land in jail in the first place?”
Start Trish with “So you know I’ve always wanted…”
David stands dumbfounded for too long at the end of the scene.
Scene 104
CAn you get Trish out around the corner a bit faster.
Pull up “Who said anything about Ted?” so it prelaps the cut as Trish turns.
Scene 105
Gotta have music as Ted comes in the door and sits next to Trish.
Do you need him exiting?
Scene 107-112
Perhaps you can pick up this scene with him already outside behind the chair, rather than walking up to it.
Get a better sound effect of the gun going off.
There’s a little smile that Ted has after “Have you ever known two people…” that you should try and get out. Perhaps you can even have David answer quicker.
Get out of David’s line after “I thought that was your thing.” I don’t think that anyone laughed at his list of the three pairs — “Peaches and Herb” and all that.
Cut to the closer shot of David as soon as Ted says “now that I don’t have a job.” This is him beginning to realize that Ted is wrong and that, perhaps, he himelf may be wrong as well about a lot of things. We should show David’s path to the “limbs and orifii” line.
Why does Ted smile way before David says “you need therapy.”
Can you be on David for “Camp Jung”? If we’re going to make this joke work in the goodbye scene we should see him say it here.
We should also be back on David’s closeup for the key parts of his speech — you have friends who adore you… limbs and orifii. this would also be a good spot for music.
We could also use a car pull up for the ambulance.
Scene 113
Take this sequence out of nine and move it up here, so the music can go all the way through.
Not sure that this is the right music, but whatever it is, make sure that we hear Steven’s line.
SEQUENCE 9
Scene 114-115
Richard’s exit knocks the camera a bit. Can you use another take or get out before that?
The music out of this is rather odd, and mixed too far down. Look at different music as well.
Scene 116-117
Are there any line cuts you can make in this scene to help it speed along? Maybe lose the “he bought the tickets in advance” line and go right to the owner sliding the paper over after Richard says “guilt.”
Scene 118
Add a bit onto the head of the Trish and Ted hug so we can see Trish accepting Ted a little bit.
Scene 119
If you’re going to use this music here, keep it going and have it wiped out by the boys practicing.
Scene 121
David walking in from the gate is more interesting than seeing the boys practice for that long bit. Can you add more onto the tail of David walking?
See if you can overlap the dialogue a little bit more.
Scene 122
You hold too long on the old lady who doesn’t like Trish. then you should cut back to Trish, for a reaction from her (she has one good one, at least) and then Dana/Julep laughing.
Scene 123
Lose David’s “I don’t know” and begin with “This is our fault.”
Show the whole “I woulda bailed too.” line.
Scene 124-126
Beef up the door open sound.
Cut back to David on “I love my wife”. right on the line, not earlier.
Can you add a tiny pause before “This is touching stuff.”
I’d cut back to the boys as soon as you think they realize that Greg isn’t running off.
Move the last shot of this scene into Sequence 10 so the music can move around.
SEQUENCE 10
Add the last shot of scene 126 to the head of this sequence for the music.
Scene 128
The shot of Dana doesn’t really focus on her so well, especially after it’s been on for awhile. make sure that we see the people who we care about.
Scene 129
There’s one too many “Everybody”
Lose “would you invite a Nazi…”
What is it that you wnt the music to do? I find that it takes me away from the words. I like how spare it is though. I also wonder if it should go longer.
He stumbles on “May your garden always grow.”
Why do you cut to Julep after “garden always grow.”
Look at prelapping David’s line and cut to him for mulch.
Maybe you can cut to Greg after David’s line, so you don’t have to walk him off in the closeup and then walk him back in again in the wide shot.
I need more shots of David’s face while he’s singing — in both the wedding and the flashback. Then I’d take a look at the places where there are simmilarities in the shooting — that is, dollies behind David, dollies across the guys, etc.
Start the voice over while we’re looking at David, not on his back. And I’d make it on a wedding closeup. This could then kick you off into the flashback.
Can some dissolves help you here, like in the Lincoln Center flashback.
Great ending. Then I’d go into some underscore right out of the applause.
This music has a great feeling, but you’ve got to duck it out too early because of the lyrics as we go into the next scene. Let’s find something that you don’t have to do it with. It would be great to keep the music going much longer. Anything a capellakkkk?
Scene 130
The cut out of Julep/Trish doesn’t really solve the problem of how long we’re sitting on that one shot. Either get out after “is he gay?” and then on the return have them chatting about what a great lover he is (Trish has an “Oh really?” that might be funny). Or keep it more or less this way and don’t ever cut back to them. I don’t really care about seeing more of Miss Julep in these parts.
It looks like Will and Ted are starting from a stopped position there.
Can you bring David into Will’s shot quicker?
We need to see the vomit on camera from the baby. I think you had a cut last time where you cut to it right as David got splattered. That way funnier.
Lose David’s line “and it certainly won’t be the last” since it seems to me to tip the point of the last scene in the apartment.
Lose Michelle’s “I think I can do this” and “You’re not so scary.” Stay with Elsa. Let’s not give Michelle an arc that she never had up until this point.
Lose “She’s never seen New York’ and that whole interchange. Just go from David’s first “really” to the “ugly guys” line.
Let’s experiment with different music. Certainly, let’s keep the music running further into the city.
Scene 132
Can you use the pullback from the apartment window to lengthen the pullback of them dancing. That is — the pullback of them dancing dissolves into the window/city pullback which, after another dissolve or two, ends up with the city skyline.
I’ll try and get you a title crawl to cut in.
initial feelings from v199 March 4, 2007
Posted by mebethe in Notes.1 comment so far
Ryan felt like it was more a meld of characters rather than just David centered – but kind of liked it when it was more davidish
John – lose tracking – esp whose story it is where push and pull is – so when David was focus it was easier to track – some places we could make him more the lead.
Two voice overs that are not David are not helpful with tracking – may be helpful to get rid of them.
Wendy though likes the variance of the other voice over – because next to david it is Richard and ted’s story too – makes it more a collective story. All going through what david is going through.
Tim – the 2nd peak experieice does feel earned – so there was some emotion.
Any characters feel not part of this movie – not drawn enough?
Tim – micelles fear of baby seems a little unplaced – where did that come from?
Gordon – she even says I’ll take care of baby
Ted is a lot funnier now – repetition is much funnier now.
Ryan – feels suicide part hard to cut because of
Norman – we will prob want to be tighter on david / Ted when we are in suicide scene
Tim – suicide scene feels very rushed transition to suicide to joking – doesn’t feel like an arc.
Beth – Julep is very spacey and her acting is bad and clothing is always falling off – voice of reason – less of her is better J
Norman – Julep and Michele arcs or depths are not working for audience
Tim – liked dana more (audience agrees)
Did the movie surprise you in terms of your thoughts or access to it – did it change?
Gordon – much funnier – figuring out whether we will hang our hats on David or more groups – entertainment and funny.
Norman – areas humor not hitting – clearly can – lets talk about where those areas are.
John – having problem tracking progression of arcs – both individual and overall arc of movie. Esp like we all love are wives – there can be more affection leading up to that point.
Norman – can we preserve comedy but have more genuine – not always wives are our dead weight
Tim – some of Davids language in beginning makes me like it – when he says like fucking or pussy whipped – have a problem with how he delivers the line –
People agree with that –
Sarah – too crass for david (for trish its ok) if he had t hem later on – maybe would get used to them
Wendy – maybe if it was consistent.
Norman – how do we want to feel about him.
Gordon – why are you drooling over elsa when your wife and she is so great.
Wendy – she is way hotter than he is J – spooner has less personality in the movie than in the movie.
Norman – we can help his comedy.
Ryan – misses the david (I think) tape measurer.
John – likes the cut and thinks the misleading not to see it.
Norman – one must have their own opinions on the cuts – and even if my notes disagree with it – there is nothing to prevent you from doing what makes sense to you – trying to guide not dictate. That is what makes difference between pair of hands and good editor. Do your own impressions of things. If you have notes of other peoples work’s lets put that in the blogs!
Lets try something and see if it works – if it doesn’t then undo it – explore the difference – (won’t be released J)
Jing – don’t like the scene when they are talking about the chart
Norman – why?
Jing – everyone so serious – repeating things in that scene – we are here we are getting old. And I really hate Julep in that scene.
Beth – perhaps she could be funny. Somehow David sets it up – confused as to what the chart is if I didn’t read script before.
Norman – A83 – my note says that area is slow. Number of places where the movie loses energy – so there are lots of things that could happen – like in the golf game – the horsing around is so slow – so things leading up to timeline makes it slower.
Norman – Doesn’t nessasarily come at that point.
Beth – beach on water dana wants to have sex with you – then kitchen would have sex with her – need to pay attn to what scenes set up for later.
Norman – if spooner does have an arc – it is paid off when he says no to trish – ii will mater – something to show us he is not Mr. Wacko. This class will teach you to think feature not just scene to scene. Must tailor scenes to pay off scenes 20 scenes later etc.
Norman – do want to say impressed how it all came together – except for music. Will need to talk about that as well. Places where there is music tend to have more energy where there isn’t. Need more music.
Ryan – some music disappeared.
Norman – start thinking about what type/placement – get feeling we are ducking out because can’t have vocals some place – needs of scene need to be taken into consideration. Music will be one of biggest struggles we will have over the next few cuts.
Really think characters are coming thorugh – humor is coming through – really working – great work everyone!
Detailed Comments Tomorrow March 4, 2007
Posted by Norman in Notes.2 comments
I’m not going to be able to get to the detailed notes until Sunday, so I’ll post them then. In the meantime, start recutting based on your own notes and the notes on this blog.
What notes?
Yeah, exactly. Start the conversation folks!!!
General Topics for v199 March 4, 2007
Posted by Norman in Notes.add a comment
Characters
Some of the characters seems to be coming off better and others worse, than expected. How do we feel about each one of them? Mention was made of Sheila’s sudden arc closing at the end. What about Will? Is he valuable enough to spend this much time with him? How are Dana and Trish coming off? Julep?
Pacing
What are the areas that feel slow? Why?
Music
As we talked about in class, music with words isn’t really working that well when we try and use it over dialogue scenes. Also, music seems to be helping in terms of support for the characters and situations, so we could use more of it. I’d like to figure out some style of music that could work as underscore.
On a side note, how do you think the Sinatra song works as a frame? I like the concept, but I’m wondering if we could find an a capella song that would work for titles music. The thought would be this — the original song would play when the old couple dance and when David and Dana dance at the end. That second song, over the apartment, would segue into the a capella version. It would be awesome if we could find a song that had one version that would appropriate for the old couple to dance to, with an update cover version that would be appropriate for David and Dana, and which had an a cappella version for the actual credits roll over the city shot and in black. I know I know, I should keep dreaming. What do you all think?
Split Screen
I know we didn’t see the split screen, but I’m wondering if we could find some device that we could use in the titles, that could return for certain of the song flashbacks and perhaps the golf montage.
Any more comments, ideas? Keep ’em coming.
Norman
CTPR 556 2012 